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ASOIAF Tudor counterparts by SingerofIceandFire ASOIAF Tudor counterparts by SingerofIceandFire
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Part 4: [link]

Well this is my opinion :D

The strong, respected woman
Catelyn Stark and Catherine of Aragon

The unpopular queen
Cersei Lannister and Anne Boleyn

The clever one
Margaery Tyrell and Jane Seymour

From pawn to queen
Sansa Stark and Elizabeth I


Well I've always admired both Catelyn and Catherine :) their lives are miserable, their children taken away from them yet the can still stay headstrong with regal and class taking no nonsense form pathetic people :hooray:

Cersei and Anne; two of the most ridiculous women I have ever heard of :furious: they were unpopular, hated, mocked and jeered at, used their body to get what they wanted (how demeaning :puke:)

Margaery and Jane played Anne at Cersei at their own game, but knew what to do ;) They knew they had to keep the king happy and Jane knew she had to win Mary Tudor over.

But I do see a bit of Catherine of Aragon in Margaery, especially at her arrest where everyone was demanding for her to be freed. It was like when the English refused to acknowledge Anne over Catherine :D

Sansa and Elizabeth is obvious :D
*they were both seen as the weakest of their siblings
*branded a traitor's daughter
*had to win people over in order to survive
*they didn't lash out
* they stayed calm and regal, thus they lived long enough
*it was a strength that waited for her time to rule :)
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:icongagnorblu:
gagnorblu Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2013
Robert has got to be Henry VIII.
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:iconbookgrl63:
bookgrl63 Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2013
Sansa's relationship with Littlefinger reminds me of Elizabeth and Thomas Seymour.
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:iconjohnnyclark:
JohnnyClark Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
mmm its an interesting comparison...
But I see Cersei more like Lucrezia Borgia than Ann Boleyn. First there is the incestous relationship with their brother (Jaime Lannister and Cesare Borgia), then there are described as women of an incredible beauty, both blond, both smart and cunning. The main difference is that Lucrezia knew her place as a female and used it as her advantage, while Cersei fight her nature and that make her weak
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
The Lannisters always reminded me of the Borgias ever since the Horrible Histories song :D :music:

Tywin = Rodrigo ;)

When it comes to personality and how they react to their situations I think Cersei and Lucrezia are very different :) If she reminded me of anyone from the Borgia family it would be cunning, evil Cesare :evillaugh:
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:iconjohnnyclark:
JohnnyClark Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
hahaha you have a point there. I havent read that much of the Borgias, but if I were to compare Cersei personality to any Borgia I would have to say that she remind me of Jofre, underestimated, evil Jofre
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:iconbubbly12:
bubbly12 Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Uh I know I commented before, but why did you post this in the Anne Boleyn Group if you don't like her? People will think your bashing on her and will give you rude comments. Just saying.
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
Because I mentioned Anne in my post :invisible:

I'm not bashing on her. I'm just criticising her actions and 'intelligence'. As far as I'm concerned she was innocent and didn't deserve to be in an abusive marriage especially when she doesn't know the first thing about queenship
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:iconbubbly12:
bubbly12 Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
But still, people might take it the wrong, I mean because they're big fans of Anne Boleyn. So they, in their own opinion believe she was very smart and was a true queen for them. Why else would they make a group for her. I'm telling you to take it off, I'm saying. Nobody likes negative comments.
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:iconkaoru-lynn-kamiya:
Kaoru-Lynn-Kamiya Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I think your wrong about Anne Boleyn there is more to her she never wanted his attraction on her. She was a very brave woman to turn down the King and give his gifts back even she saw what happen to her sister and never wanted it to happen for herself. Before all that happen she was proby a very caring and loving soul that when Henry got a hold of her and kept changing the rules of their marriage where she couldn't tell him how she felt or be truthful with each other. TBH about the other Henry I don't think she really loved him she just wanted someone to marry I'm not a King Henry VIII and Anne fan just feel like she loved the King far more. You don't get jealous of someone stealing your husband. Also Henry and Catherine's marriage had ended long before Anne came into the picture and was wanted by Henry. She refused him because she respected herself too much to become his mistress and his soul one at that. Jane did the SAME THING she played the game like Anne did and she only won because Anne miscarried her Son. Jane died giving England the much waited for Prince but by the time Henry was growing tired of her also. aside from that I think people miss understand Anne Boleyn she wasn't a whore or anything she was just innocent victim that fell in love with the wrong person. HENRY made the choices about Mary not Anne. Anne tried to befriend Mary but she refused to it was easy to just to accept Anne as Queen and she would of been brought back into her fathers favor. Anne's father also had a very bad role in Anne's life when her sister slept with the King but still he pushed Anne into the Kings way. I believe Anna never really wanted to be Queen she just wanted to be a wife and a mother. but that is just my believe and I think she was innocent of everything. Henry had his own mind he listen to others but made the choice himself........... Henry is a pig I've said it to others once before
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
If it was between
A) be the king's mistress for a bit like every other woman. When he's done with you he'd probably let you marry Henry Percy or some one else
or
B) make yourself the most hated woman in Europe, with only the protection of your fickle abusive husband. Whilst you gamble and risk everything on a son when both your mother and sister have had a past of miscarriages
I'd choose A :)

Catherine was England's queen and England doesn't care if their marriage is failing. Henry should've waited for her to die (which probably wouldn't have taken very long) instead of making himself so unpopular, tear his country apart and lose ties with Europe

I wouldn't say Anne loved Henry, I think that was an effect from domestic abuse. But I'm glad you're not honey coating their abusive marriage :)

My opinion of Anne is the same as my opinion on Cersei
a) queenship destroyed them
b) they would've been so much happier with a loving, respectful husband
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:iconkaoru-lynn-kamiya:
Kaoru-Lynn-Kamiya Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I find Catherine and Anne's stories to be more of a sad love story but still have the abusive of a husband who said he would love them and not another.

Catherine had been his brothers widow we can't be for sure that she wasn't a virgin as they had said she was on her wedding night to Henry. As she was to his brother.

Anne don't deserve to be a mistress she knew this and she told him her feelings and she watched her sister become one to not only one King but two.

I agree Anne should of had a marriage that wasn't abusive at all. Nor Catherine should ether. Jane got lucky and had Edward and then fell to the child bed fever which killed her. I'm not a fan of Jane.

Jane also played Henry just like Anne did. Both Anne and Jane were used to gain titles and riches by their own family.

What is their to sugar coat Anne and Henry's marriage all she went through was a trial but she give Elizabeth to England and she brought a golden Age to England through it. With her daughter she did bring about a Golden Age. Without Anne there wouldn't of been a Elizabeth. Sad thing is Anne never once said a bad thing about Henry as she stood on that block of wood to have her head cut off not once.

But this is all I think. Two strong woman brought to their knees by their husband two that had so much faith in him only to get hurt. But then again each their own...
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
I feel like making a 'I hate Henry VIII' page :D

I like Jane actually :) Although she played the same game as Anne. Just like Margaery she understood what it meant to be queen and she also tried to mend the bond between Mary and Henry. And if she has Mary by her side she has popularity ;)
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:iconkaoru-lynn-kamiya:
Kaoru-Lynn-Kamiya Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
lol a hate page for him I wonder how many people you could get for that XD

Each their own but you watched two strong woman before her get brought to their knees by this man that's why I hate him. Even if she had Mary by her side she still don't take in Elizabeth ether till about a year or so later which wasn't fair to Anne's daughter so wasn't she doing the same thing also?
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2012
I'm serious we should make one :D

Anne disrespected, mistreated and angered a popular, loved, strong princess who had allies. Jane just favored Mary and didn't care about Elizabeth; like everybody else including Henry, the Howards and the Boleyns
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:iconkaoru-lynn-kamiya:
Kaoru-Lynn-Kamiya Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
we could make a hate Henry page but idk how many would join lol
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:iconloveletterstoanne:
LoveLettersToAnne Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012
Love it :) but I think your opinion about Anne is not that "right".
but anyway: like Catharine & Elizabeth the most ;)
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012
well her and Cersei were both extremely unpopular and completely dependent on a man. Anne was dependent on Henry and Cersei was dependent on Tywin.
Their accusations and marriages are similar as well :)

Who would you say Cersei was like? I know a lot of people compare her to Elizabeth Woodville.

Thanks for Catherine and Elizabeth :D

BTW who do you think will be queen Margaery, Sansa or Dany?
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:iconloveletterstoanne:
LoveLettersToAnne Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
yeah but she isn't ONLY a slut :P
it is f*ckin' difficult to decide such things ... I'm not good at that ... :(
but I would love if you would put in Lady Jane Grey & Bloody Mary :D and maybe Mary Stuart :D
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
I don't think Cersei and Anne are sluts :O but that doesn't mean I agree with their way of making men do what they want

I saw Bloody Mary to be like Melisandre :D You know with the whole religion and burning :flame:

You could say Mary Stuart was like Margaery as well. Both had 3 husbands,were arrested by threatened queens, but I can't see Margaery getting herself into half the mess Mary did ;)

Not sure about Jane Grey. We'll have to see what George has in store
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:iconloveletterstoanne:
LoveLettersToAnne Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
yeah but I think it's quite a clever idea to make men crazy about you :'D let the way be ... strange.
Burning *-*
yeah Mary really ended up in a mess o.o
aw. :) can't wait to see more ;)
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:iconcelestearcher:
celestearcher Featured By Owner Aug 21, 2012
I loved the similarities of the characters to the real people in history. Personally, I always loved Anne despite how she was so unpopular and the crimes against her were ludicrous in my opinion. When Elizabeth became queen, it was as if all her so called crimes were vindicated and that she was really innocent.
I on the other hand always hated Jane Seymour. This is probably why I'm rooting for Cersei over Margaery. Specifically if you can actually understand what's she's going through, if you were in her place being passed over by the young and new queen. That actually hurts. lol
But hey history righted itself when Jane died and soon after her sickly son followed her. Who is to say that Asoiaf wouldn't also be the same. In the end, Elizabeth became queen and I hope Sansa would also be the same.
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Aug 23, 2012
Her crimes really were ridiculous weren't they. But hey, he's king and no one's going to fight for her. The injustice is barbaric :furious:

Littleginger summed up perfectly the main problem with people like Cersei and Anne; they want power, but don't know how to keep it

They're not made for queenship, it destroyed them and caused problems for their country and family
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:iconcelestearcher:
celestearcher Featured By Owner Aug 24, 2012
I still love Anne though. Henry probably loved her as well if not he didn't fight for her so much to even found divorce just for her.
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Aug 28, 2012
I don't think that monster is capable of such feeling :furious:

His desperation to marry her had more to do with the fact that she could promise him a son, more then anything else. Please don't try and make an abusive marriage look like a historic romance :(
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:iconcelestearcher:
celestearcher Featured By Owner Aug 28, 2012
Well to me I think he did love her to such an extent but not enough or not as strongly as his persistence to gain a male heir. Trluy he was a pathetic man tbh.
It still makes me laugh though that all he got is a weak little son who didn't last long and the daughter of Anne got to enjoy her being queen. Gosh he must be rolling in his grave seeing Anne got the last laugh.
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:iconbubbly12:
bubbly12 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
That's cool but you do the actress who plays Margaery also plays as Anne Boleyn. Also Anne Boleyn waited until she was married and gave her body to Henry and returned all his gifts. Still this is great.
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2012
Natalie Dormer played the same character; that doesn't mean they're alike

Margaery isn't that stupid, she would never try and take the throne from a popular, respected, well loved queen ;) (CoA is the optimum of badass :D)

She seduced Henry though, her only appeal was playing hard to get; she didn't have his respect, she was hated by everyone, she wasn't queen material, she was jealous and spiteful and couldn't be with the man she loved; just like Cersei

Queenship destroyed Anne just like it's destroying Cersei
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:iconbubbly12:
bubbly12 Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I forget to tell you this too, in my opnion she was queen material she was well educated and spoke other languages and Anne is not an unpopular queen maybe in that time but now she's famous in history. There's even a website The Anne Boleyn Files about Anne Boleyn. Jane Seymour, she was kind and loving but still she wasn't as smart as Anne she couldn't write her own name. What did she do for Elizabeth because a friend of mine said that Jane hated Elizabeth because of Anne and only liked Mary because she respected COA, but I'm pretty sure she made that up, my friend hates Jane Seymour, she said something about celebrating after her rivals death and she's the reason Anne miscarried. I don't don't much notice Jane but I just gave you the facts I read from the computer and what Jasmine said.
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:iconbubbly12:
bubbly12 Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Is that all you about know Anne Boleyn because there's more than that, but yeah it's true she shouldn't taken the place COA but even if she didn't who knows someone could have done the same thing. If it weren't for Anne, Elizabeth wouldn't have been born. By the way what does Cersei do that makes her co bad?
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2012
Anne has more responsibility for Mary's reign then she did for Elizabeth's, thank Katherine Parr, Kat Ashley (people who were there for her) for her reign

Her treatment of Mary was appalling, she made more enemies then allies, when she fell there was no one willing to pick her up or stand up for her, she demeaned herself and didn't have people's respect.

But before all this she was actually a very loving woman who had a sweetheart who she wanted to marry, she wouldn't let her family ruin her like they did for her younger sister, she had pride and she was close to her family.

You see how her and Cersei are similar?
*queenship destroyed them
*they wanted power but didn't know how to keep it
*they used their body to get what they wanted
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:iconbubbly12:
bubbly12 Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
You just admitted it, that she was. But I still consider her that sweet women and besides who knows what could have happened to her if she kept refusing the king and not been queen. He probably would have gotten angry with her and make up a fake crime and accuse her for it.

Also I asked about Cersei you only gave me three examples not much about her.
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2012
She refused to be Henry's mistress; not queen. The consequences were far worse, he why would he fake a crime about her? He's many things but I doubt even he's that desperate for a woman.

After reading AFFC you see a lot of similarities between these two women and this is what this pic is about.
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:iconbubbly12:
bubbly12 Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I believe Henry would do anything stupid to get what he wants. Besides, I hope you don't like Henry because I don't want to upset because I consider him a pig. A filthy pig who will kill anybody who gets in his way. If it weren't for him Anne would be with the person she loved, Henry ordered Wolsey to end their relationship.

Also I'm not asking for similarities I'm asking who Cersei, what does she do in the game of thrones, I know the three facts you gave about her similarity of Anne.
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:iconsingeroficeandfire:
SingerofIceandFire Featured By Owner Aug 3, 2012
I don't like Henry! :O

I'm glad you don't see him as some kind of romantic hero like some bloody idiots :furious:

I don't understand by what you mean about Cersei :confused:
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